Welcome to MBA Podcaster, the only broadcast source for cutting edge information and advice on the MBA application process. I’m Catherine Girardeau. On today’s show, “Landing Your Ideal Summer Internship”, we’ll hear a former MBA student’s success story about landing a competitive summer internship with little prior work experience. Also the Career Development Director from the University of Michigan’s Ross School of Business and representatives from Microsoft and Vanguard with tips on what they offer and how you can prepare for those interviews, internships and ultimately land a full-time job.

Even MBAs are feeling the squeeze from a tightening economy. This makes the summer internship, taken between the first and second years of your MBA program an even more crucial step toward the ultimate goal of landing full-time employment with the company of your choice.

How important is the summer internship to a MBA candidate’s future success? Pretty darn important according to Al Cotrone, Director of Career Development at the University of Michigan’s Ross School of Business, “I think that if we list securing a full-time position through on-campus interviewing as the over-arching goal then the summer internship can be quite important. I think that the best scenario will obviously be one where the student will identify their preferred post-graduate employer, secure an internship with that employer for that summer, get an offer for full-time employment at the end of that summer and then go there after graduation.”

Due to current economic hiring conditions MBA students are having to cast a wider net, considering jobs that companies or in cities they wouldn’t have considered in a stronger market. But a former MBA student and Al Cotrone of Ross School of Business say that casting too wide a net isn’t necessarily a winning strategy. Al Cotrone, “In a funny kind of non-intuitive way the people who are more clear and reduce their target to just a couple of companies, they get all out of options. The people who try to keep all of their options open and shop around and look for how many can I collect they get very, very few choices if any.”

UC Berkeley Haas School of Business MBA, Leila Johansson agrees she’ll share her advice on how to turn an interview into a job offer. Johansson came into her MBA program at age 22 with only three years work experience under her belt. But despite these potential strikes against her she managed to secure her dream job even though she interviewed with only one company. “Not having as much experience you know I dropped resumes, I wasn’t getting interviews, I was stressing out and getting worried and I did get one interview with Neutrogena J & J and this is where I think it was really a blessing in disguise that I had the one because I was able to really focus and get fully prepared for this one interview versus other people who had multiple interview offers and just simply could not be as prepared for each one. They couldn’t know the company as well, the brand, you know position themselves, that’s why I think I was able to really stand out.” Johansson went on to get a full-time job offer from Neutrogena Johnson and Johnson in marketing then moved to London to work in L’Oreal’s marketing department before returning to San Francisco with a job in brand management for GAP Inc.’s Banana Republic Division. Not a bad career trajectory for someone who went into her MBA program with as she put it zero marketing experience. She competed for that first internship against two dozen other candidates from Haas, all older, most with more work experience than she had. “It just shows you how much if you just prepare, if you are passionate about it, if you can be authentic about it, it was my dream job how that can really make a difference.”

Johansson’s strategy was a good one but in this highly competitive job market it is certainly not the only approach MBA’s should take to secure their summer internship. Al Cotrone of University of Michigan’s Ross School says it’s never too early to get focused in on your career goals. He advises all potential MBA students to do a thorough self-assessment before even applying for their MBAs. “Well we found over the years is that the students who are able to have through a real thorough self-assessment an understanding of what their own skills and capabilities are, how those skills and capabilities match with what the companies need and then are able to talk about those, those are the ones who actually do quite successfully find the internships that they want. You know, it is very competitive to traditional MBA industries or functions that they might go after or brand management or consulting or investment banking and in each of those industries there are probably eight to 12 top name organizations that students at MBA programs are all desirous of getting in to. So I think there is a lot more demand from the students than there is supply from the companies for those internships so it is a very competitive landscape. I think from the outside looking in, if you come to this cold or before you’ve accessed the real data that you need to get, before you accessed those things you may have the sense that well gosh there is going to be all of these companies and I’ll be able to just pick and choose one. What we tell our students all of the time is that on-campus interviewing is easy to access but it’s actually difficult to be successful in. So it’s very easy to sign up and to meet a company and to get an interview but there is a whole different story to being successful in it.”

Cotrone advises students to do these things before even arriving on-campus: assess your career goals, identify companies you want to work for, and network, network, network. “I think there is a very subtle but important distinction between applying and interviewing for an internship on the one hand and then just networking to lay the ground work that will yield an internship on the other. My best advice to my incoming students is to use the time in the summer before you leave home to come to school to reach out to acquaintances that you already know and alumni of your new school to kind of seek advice and establish a relationship with them and this in early the summer before you even come to campus. I think by doing that long before you actually need the internship, the students will be able to later on when they do need the internship already be an established product, an established quantity if you will for the alumni, for the recruiters when they really want that internship later.”

What pitfalls should MBA students avoid when seeking that all important summer internship? “The most common mistake that I see students make is when they begin to think of the internship as a way to round out their experience or complete a piece of their resume puzzle that they don’t currently have in place. The internship is a means to an end is what I tell my students and that end is to secure the offer of full-time employment. So a student is much better advised in my opinion to identify their post-graduation plans and then try to seek an internship with that employer again with an eye toward getting a full-time offer at the end of the summer. Now as far as actually securing the internship I think the same advice that is given above is also, that I talked about before is also beneficial. If an internship employer kind of gets the sense that a student isn’t thinking about working for them in the long-term and just wants to kind of add some experience for the summer to look better they really won’t be interested in the candidate.”

Al Cotrone worked on recruiting on college campuses with Price Waterhouse before joining the career development center at the Ross School of Business so he has some perspective on the employer’s mindset when it comes to summer internships for MBA students, “I think that it is important to remember that companies don’t offer internships because they need to get work done during the summer or you know out of the goodness of their corporate hearts. They see these internship programs as the core in the base of their full-time recruitment plan that they are going to execute the following year. So to them it is very important that they identify the core of their full-time class and get them into their organizations for internships.”

I asked Al if he thought economy might be a reason to jump ship on the MBA program if the summer internship employer makes a full-time job offer before a student has completed their MBA. As a practical matter very rarely do I see someone to choose not to do that especially if you have invested a full year and a significant amount of money into getting half of it done to then not return after your summer internship is a difficult thing to do. I think most schools will not accept a lot of other schools credit so it would be difficult to not return to that same school and finish it at a later date. I do know that I would not let the current economic situation drive that decision. Things change so quickly over the years, and I watched it for a long time. If an incoming student is worried about the economy today, by the time they graduate two years from now it could be a whole different story. So I wouldn’t let that decision be driven by the current economy, I would let it be driven more by what are your career plans and ambitions and how much will having that degree on your resume play in to it in the future.”

Let’s look now at a couple of companies and the summer internships they offer to MBAs: investment management company, Vanguard which has a young program just recently formalized and Microsoft Corporation which has a fully developed, very competitive internship program. Brett Baumoel, Staffing Manager on Microsoft’s College Recruiting Team, “I’ve been at Microsoft a few years and coming from the outside and doing MBA recruiting prior to coming here, I am absolutely blown away with the greatness of this program.” But Brett Baumoel discusses what makes for a stellar summer internship and how Microsoft has incorporated these objects into their program, “What we really focus is truly providing a very impactful role with true responsibility to the interns. And that is kind of the core of the summer project that they will be assigned. On top of that we have infrastructure to provide them with exposure to all of our senior leadership of the company and then provide events funded by us in recruiting to really create a large social network with their peers and recent alumni from all of their schools. Due to our reputation on campus of having a really fantastic internship both from the work quality and the experience, we are really, highly sought after. A few thousand candidates seek our opportunities out every year.”

Baumoel said Microsoft tries to hold the program to about 65 positions each summer to maintain the quality experience the company is trying to provide, “We actually have a really highly selective exclusive MBA internship program that focuses on three main roles. Our product manager which is within our marketing function across all businesses, it really accounts for about 80% of our opportunities. Our finance manager, which again happens across a few businesses but mostly within one, that’s about 15% of our opportunities. And then our corporate strategy group and that’s the last 5% of our opportunities.”

Baumoel says the access Microsoft gives interns to Senior Executive leaders in the company is one thing that sets the program apart, “Though at a high level the MBA program that infrastructure that we have, we set up weekly and sometimes twice a week lunches and invite all of our senior level executives to present and sit down and enjoy lunch with the interns. It is truly not the formal presentation that you may think of, it is really an opportunity to engage at a deep level and answer questions. The typical time the leader will take like yesterday Steve Balmer presented for 10 minutes. He gave a very high level overview of his view of Microsoft and then for the next hour he answered any question that was asked of him. And then again in a very informal setting and an opportunity to really engage leaving the meeting he said just email me at my email address should you have any additional questions or really want to engage me further. And so we do that with all of our senior level execs and that is our formal structure.” This access during the internship gives former interns who return for a full-time job with Microsoft a leg up Baumoel said, “One of the things we hear often is as the former interns return to Microsoft, due to the fact that we provided them the depth of interaction with our senior leadership and created this widespread network for them they’ve been able to come in and really step above the other hires because they truly understand how to navigate Microsoft’s waters; the advantage in being able to succeed in their current role and have the opportunity to really move into other roles as they go. So we hear that over and over from our former interns.”

Anjie Blindauer, an MBA Staffing Consultant with Microsoft gave me some insight into what Microsoft is looking for in its internship candidates, probably what any company would want, “They’re passionate for technology, their ultimate desire to make a lasting and strong impact, committed to their work and excellence and ability to collaborate with multiple parties to solve difficult, challenging business problems; truly a customer focus and approach and of course their leadership.” Blindauer said most Microsoft summer interns have three to seven years previous work experience not necessarily in technology. Baumoel added that in addition to true passion that aligns with the opportunities Microsoft offers, an open mind is one thing Microsoft looks for in its internship applicants, “Opportunities all over Microsoft’s different business groups will present themselves and those that have that open mind could really jump into something and have an experience that they truly did not expect.”

Having a formalized social networking program at the company you join can help you network beyond business school. Here’s how Microsoft does it, “We do have a lot of social networking events and so we actually truly help them create a much broader network than someone that would a full-time employee would have to truly do on their own.” What’s more, Baumoel and Blindauer make working at Microsoft sound like more than just a job, “In addition to our executive speaker series we host a number of events throughout the events that look to build community not only with the interns that are here but with the greater Microsoft community and in addition to that kind of the Seattle community. So we have an event that is a community service event where we look to engage interns from Microsoft and also interns who are here from other companies in the Seattle area out for a project on the Saturday and then to collaboration with a non-profit organization called Seattle Work which looks to inspire individuals in their 20s and 30s to get out and do something for their community. We have a number of events that happen through the summer, kind of outdoor activities kayaking out on the Lake… we do a scavenger hunt which really looks to engage interns on their first day, happy hours on the first day of all of our interns and they start to build that community from the very beginning. And we top it off at the end of the year with an end of summer kick off.”

But not every MBA wants to work in technology or compete at the level you have to to get into a Microsoft or a Google. Ken Oyer, a Senior Manager in Investment Company, Vanguard Leadership Development Department gave me some insight into their program. It’s new, growing and still a bit under the radar compared to larger, more established internships. Last year Vanguard’s program had 162 applicants for about 10 internship positions. Vanguard interns can go into four different areas financial analysis, marketing, investments, or relationship management. Ken Oyer, “I feel one of the primary things that we look for are those interested in Vanguard and our business. The other thing we look for is certainly those who have some demonstrated leadership and it doesn’t have to be leadership in the formal sense of the word with direct reports but it could be that informal leadership. But those characteristics that show the initiative, the ability to lead others even if it’s in a formal manner. Looking for solid to strong communication skills and a strong presence because typically they are going to be in roles that they are going to be interacting with a number of individuals of all levels of the organization. Because they could be coming in and doing a lot of variety of different types of projects we’re looking for those who are really comfortable with ambiguity. Change as it may occur over their summer experience.”

Oyer stressed the importance of potential interns doing their research and making sure that Vanguard is the perfect fit for them before applying. “Every company is going to have its own corporate culture, their own value system so as they are exploring many of these are being wooed by many organizations so there are a lot opportunities out there for them. So I would suggest that they explore those opportunities and start honing in on the ones that really start to feel right for them that they feel fit their career interest and feels like a place that they want to go into every day for the internship and maybe for long-term right? Because they are going to be also looking for the summer internship for potential full-time employers will. So I say do the homework on that end and then when they find a genuine interest let it be known.” Oyer mentioned the two top qualities Vanguard interns and future employees need to have, “Well in our industry and especially Vanguard I say both integrity and ethics are going to be top on our list.”

Now a word about timelines: As Al Cotrone of the Ross School mentioned earlier it’s a good idea to define your career goals, reach out to your school’s alumni networks and start building relationships before you get to campus for the first year. Former MBA student Leila Johansson tells why, “Once you start in the fall you’re going to be pretty busy with the core program. And then before you know it your first quarter or semester is over and its recruiting season.” Al Cotrone describes how students have to hit the ground running for recruiting season, “Between probably the second week of January and the really the third or fourth week of February so for six or seven straight weeks here on campus in January and February we’ll have probably 25 or 30 interviews scheduled every day for students and that’s probably 10-12 students per interview schedule. So there’s a lot of recruiters that come to campuses during January and February conducting those interviews, looking for those summer interns.”

Technology company, Microsoft targets about 12 business schools and ends up hiring interns from about 20 schools according to Brett Baumoel. If your school isn’t one of those Microsoft targeted institutions Baumoel encourages you to apply online by mid January. Angie Blindauer gave me some detail about Microsoft’s recruiting schedule, “The generally average recruiting season for interns and also candidates for full-time that generally begins in mid-September with on-campus activities that help us to market Microsoft and hopefully identify interested candidates. In addition to that we have a limit to campus interviews which kind of happen in mid-January ending with meeting with them for final interviews February between March and then all of our internships should be filled by the end of April.”

Al Cotrone says even if you don’t go back to your summer internship employer after your graduation, the summer internship is a crucial step that shapes your future career. “More than half of our students won’t go back to their internship employer for full-time and if that’s the case that summer internship can be very, very important. In investment banking for example it’s almost essential that a student have an internship in investment banking. The recruiters really expect that any MBA making a career transition to have been selected for an internship by at least one of their competitors. Now they do love the idea of stealing a competitor’s intern but they’ll also be suspicious if they see you’re not returning to that internship. Another group that loves to see an internship for that summer is consultants. They would prefer to see that alright someone else has chosen you and again it’s more the selectability that comes with having that name on your resume than it is anything else. When an employer or recruiter is looking at a student for full-time sees that that student was selected by another top name organization for an internship that really makes a big difference for them. And so I think that becomes a factor. They will always be suspicious of why are you not returning to your internship employer but it still says a lot about a candidate that somebody with a big name shows them for the previous summer.”

For more information, a transcript of this show or to register for your weekly MBA podcast, visit MBAPodcaster.com. This is MBA Podcaster. I’m Catherine Girardeau, thanks for listening and stay tuned next time when we explore another topic of interest in your quest for a MBA.

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